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These are in-depth conversations one-on-one with hCG ladies where you get to hear their whole weight loss story and the tips that helped them succeed.
 
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These are short testimonials of ladies who’ve written in their hCG diet results to me for quick motivation.

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This one is for all the males out there. For any of you who think it’s impossible for a large grown man to be comfortable on a 500 calorie diet, perhaps James’ input will help you re-think that. The hCG hormone does not appear to be a placebo in light of user feedback like James, who at 6’3″, with a very active job, can take 200 IU of hCG a day and live on a 500 calorie daily diet for 8 full weeks, without hunger comfortably. I feel pretty certain if there was placebo effect involved, it would have worn off pretty quickly. You can check out my other male hCG interview, Nathan who lost 110 lbs in 6 months as well.

Ladies, lets all try not to be jealous okay? I know I know, men have it so good when it comes to weight loss. But we’ve got some advantages men don’t have too right? Let’s take this time to support and applaud how well they can do on this protocol!

James

• Age: 53 years old
• Height: 6’3″
• Starting Weight: 410 lbs
• Currently: 345 lbs
•  Weight Loss: 65 lbs in 1 round of 8 weeks long.

And of course you can check out all the other hCG Diet Interview episodes for more motivation as well. Current recommendations for purchasing hCG Injections here.

Transcript:

Download Episode 22 Transcript – PDF

Or read it below!

HCG Interview Episode 22 – hcgchica.com
Rayzel: This is Episode 22 of the HCG Diet Interviews with Everyday People. I have snagged another male to interview. It’s something that I have a hard time getting a hold on. There are a lot of men doing this diet but they’re just not as around for me to find and to make the time. I have James with me today and I really appreciate him taking the time to share how his journey’s going so far. He’s still in the middle of his weight loss journey. He’s lost 65 pounds with 1 round of HCG which is pretty exciting. So we’re gonna talk all about that and just a little bit of his past and his current lifestyle now. You’re in P3 right now, right?
James: I am right at the end of P3. I’m actually eager and excited to do the next round.
Rayzel: Cool. That’s awesome.
James: I’ve been like that before but I’m really excited and eager to go to the next round right now.
Rayzel: Tell us just real quick how old you are, how tall you are, basic stuff like that.
James: I am 6’2” and I think I used to be a 6”3. I am 53 years old. Today I weigh in at 345 point something. I have been as heavy as 485 before. Started watching TV interviews and pictures of guys that are only 600 something pounds lined up on Big {inaudible} and couldn’t {inaudible} and I’m thinking, Lord I am only a little over hundred pounds away from that. I’ve got to do something. I started having panic attacks and just didn’t know what works so that came out and it’s just all kind of stuff you know. But I’ve found HCG and I started under a, well, actually I was fortunate to get to start under a medical supervision kind of thing that isn’t using the big shots. I hated shots. I mean if I could have taken a shot, honest to God, in high school I would have become an intravenous drug user. I had friends that did it but I could not take a shot to save my life so just started taking shots. I was [inaudible] everything and now thank God it’s come out with this little diabetic needles and half the time I don’t even feel them much less it doesn’t hurt I can do it.
Rayzel: That is true. The little subcutaneous needle, that’s what he’s talking about, for injections. For anyone who’s nervous about injections then you’re not sure. It’s not like going to the doctor and getting some big shot. They’re really tiny needles, they’re short and they’re very thin. So like he said when you injected it to your fat which is what you’re supposed to do. You really don’t even feel it. Why don’t you tell us a little bit about, this maybe the round that you just completed, you said you started this particular round at 411 pounds, right?
James: I did.
Rayzel: How long did you end up doing this round? How many days were you on the diet would you say?
James: Well, this is the only thing that really works for me in my life. I did lose a lot of weight with HCG and then I just let myself go back to doing everything I was doing before to half gallon ice cream, you know, stupid stuff. Life turns on you, you get depressed, and you lose a business here and there, whatever. You try to turn yourself to what makes you feel good, that stuff that’s killing you. But anyway, in a while, I decided that I wanted to do HCG again. I couldn’t find a doctor around here, it costs a fortune to buy it, so I started looking at the internet and I found your webpage. So I have had the benefit of ordered through your webpage and then I got the product that had the B12 with it. I thought that would be cool. I’m thinking seriously about trying the product that’s got the fats
Rayzel: Oh yeah like the lipo shots
James: I’d like to see what that’s about. Anyway, I did the last round and what I ordered and the amount I was taking gave me 50 shots so I’ve decided do 50 shots. I was still losing weight everyday so I thought {inaudible} or anything. I skipped a day a week. So I scratched it out very close to maybe 8 weeks.
Rayzel: Cool. So about 8 weeks on the low calorie diet and you lost about 65 pounds. Did you load for 2 days like usual or?
James: I did a fat load.
Rayzel: How many pounds did you gain loading?
James: I did a clean load. I’m serious. The clean load- I never thought about that before but it makes so much sense because you end up doing a whole bunch of sugar and carbs when you’re trying to fat load. Let’s have pasta, let’s have pizza, let’s- Ice cream’s got fat and you know I just decided not to do that and part of it is like, “Oh your fat enough you don’t need a fat load” but because I read his manuscript and because I believe in reading his manuscript big time if you’re gonna do this. I decided it was important to do that. I did the fat load for 2 days and then I started right in.
Rayzel: Great. Did you gain weight during the loading?
James: A pound or 2 maybe.
Rayzel: [Inaudible]
James: You know sometimes it can be a little weird because I’m really sensitive to salt and so a whole water is in a heartbeat so you know honest to God one day even that heavy I can fluctuate 5 or 6 pounds if I eat a big salt meal. But I think I only did 1-1/2 or 2 pounds doing the fat load but I honestly dropped 15-20 pounds the first week been thinking about it.

Rayzel: For anyone who doesn’t know, when he’s talking about a clean load the original protocol you load on high calories for the first 2 days of the diet before you go to the low calorie. Originally it was kind of just you eat whatever as long as it has fat but oftentimes it would include things that had sugar and carbs but what I ended up doing for a few of my rounds was loading without sugar and carbs but still making sure to eat a high fat diet and I found that to be much better for me just overall. So that’s what he’s saying he did. The nice thing about it is that usually when you load clean the loading gain is usually not much. You can count on that which is nice because it’s nice to be losing new weight as soon as possible.
James: Yeah it is. Fortunately for me my weight drops out of my face first. It’s like this huge motivator. The scale’s going down. The face is whatever.
Rayzel: So people notice it probably pretty quickly then.
James: Yeah and pretty soon I’m due for a haircut. Every time I get a haircut, “Oh you’re losing so much weight.”
Rayzel: That’s that little trick. Cool.
James: I tell you one thing. There comes a man when I was doing probably a few years ago. I got down to just under 300. My son was going to this Boy Scout thing. The keys and the [inaudible] you can’t get on the boat if you’re over 300 so [inaudible]. But I had a picture snapped at me at a Mother’s day with all my grandsons, my wife Rene and I looked so drawn out. I look like such an old man. I was used to looking at this fat guy for years and this scared me. My mom went to her 50th reunion it’s like “When have a change” he said, “Well fat builds up the wrinkles.” I’m like “Yeah right.” And to some degree it might but it freaked me out. So this time I’m taking time to look in the mirror every day. You know what I’m getting older slow; you get a wrinkle or 2. I’d rather be slimmer. I’d rather not to have to be walking off curves and second guessing myself. I walk almost every day a couple of miles around the lake and another few pounds I’ll be on my bike again. Now I got on the bike last time I was doing HCG. I hadn’t been on a bike in 30 years and I got to where I am because I hate exercise. I cannot stand it. As a kid we have to do this presence physical fitness thing and it was the worst. I couldn’t do the pull up, I was always last running. I hate, hate it, hate it, exercise. And I got this picture when I was 18/19 years old. I thought I was so fat. One picture I’m curbing up my stomach and the other picture I’m there and I’m skinny as a rail and it just freaks me out that I thought I was fat.
Rayzel: Isn’t that funny? Perceptions of ourselves can be so off when you look back.
James: They really can.
Rayzel: So it sounds like you just weren’t very strong or something even though you were thin.
James: I don’t know what it was.
Rayzel: Yeah like “I just hated exercise, I couldn’t do it.”
James: I got this picture where I’m flexing a little bit and standing there or something and I heard a man a couple of years ago say they did this big study with women that are working out in these clubs and they’re in front of these big mirrors and very rarely can they lose weight because they’re seeing this picture of them overweight every day and that’s the picture [inaudible] I got rid of the mirrors on my [inaudible]. I got this big 3×4 flip poster of me, that was gonna be my before picture right? Rip and cut then I’m gonna have an after picture now I’m like “My God, get me back there!” So I’ve got that on my wall and once in a while people walk and they were like-
Rayzel: What? What is that?
James: That’s the picture I want in my mind. Sometimes I think hope that’s not the picture you’ve got in your mind but you don’t look like that yet.
Rayzel: Yeah, right. That’s interesting too what you mentioned about the mirrors. You know I talk about CrossFit all the time and there are no mirrors at CrossFit gyms. There’s no mirror so I think that’s a good thing. You don’t know what you look like so you’re just there to work hard and see what comes of it.
James: When you do start losing weight like you know because I’ve done this round before and I hate that I went back up 300 pounds and then I got to go back down. But from like 400 to 350, I mean, people can see in your face and you can see your belly shave off a little bit and you know, shirts that you couldn’t wear once you go you start looking back a little bit and that’s all cool.
Rayzel: Yeah.
James: When you start losing from between for me, 350 to 300 that’s gonna be different for everybody. Then you start really seeing yourself different and you get this little that’s like, “Wow is that a leg muscle?” you’ll work it and not only is there a shape here and then sometimes you’re like laying in the bed or just something happens and you’re like “I feel thin” or “I don’t feel this fat around me, I feel like what might be a normal person. I just feel like I’ve got this walls on me right now and it’s the coolest feeling and I’m learning to try to capture those feelings. I’ve been trying to write those down and I’ve heard if thoughts like that come to you and it all somehow actualizes or get them in yet you’re gonna lose them so I got a journal I drive around with. I don’t journal a lot yet but some that I work on but at least throw down that thought.
Rayzel: I love that you say that because you’re right there’s those sensations where you feel like “Oh this is a very comfortable normal feeling in my body” and you’re right it’s a very good feeling. Like when my clothes fit more comfortable now and I just feel like, I don’t know, it’s just not an issue for me- I was only about 50 pounds overweight to start with but it’s still a good amount of weight. I’m only 5’1’’. I just remember in the car I felt just very uncomfortable driving in the car just because the seatbelt would just always cut in to my fat. It’s like I could never be just comfortable just sitting. I just wasn’t comfortable all the time. I don’t worry about that now.
James: That’s funny. Driving the car was one way I measured my fat loss because- I have a tape measure but it’s like the steering wheel is digging into your belly right? Well, after a few days of HCG, a week or so. It’s like” Hey, its stop dragging my belly anymore” and “Hey there’s a finger width now” and now I’m up to 3 fingers width.
Rayzel: Awesome! That’s perfect. That’s a great stuff to have. At the end you’ll have your measuring tape with how far away from the steering wheel your belly is.
James: The measuring tape for me is hard because just figuring it out and what not, pulling too tight so that you get- I wanna do my measurements like that I’ll do them without looking previously. So frequency where I was, I got these little tricks with me but you know we need them.
Rayzel: Actually speaking of measurements I’m working on a little workbook right now to help people keep track. It’ s kind of like a tracking hCG diet tracker I’m working on and it’ll help track what you’re eating, your weight, but also measurements; how to kind of accurately measure yourself with like maybe doing it once a week or something. I think that would be helpful.
James: I was thinking something, you’re [inaudible] you got yourself in. A lot of times [inaudible] talk about this, and they’re like hormone, you know, you growing boobs, I already got boobs, [inaudible] but it’s not an issue. I mean, again if you just read the manuscript- is it Simolton?
Rayzel: Simeons, Dr. Simeons.
James: But if you read that thing, you’ll realize it’s not an issue. My wife unfortunately for her, she’s so frustrated sometimes because she still has this bulge in her belly to get rid of her so she’ll keep on hCG to get rid of it but she doesn’t lose any weight like when you don’t have any more fat really to lose your body it’s not gonna work. So we [inaudible] and I like that aspect.
Rayzel: Right. Sometimes I have a little excess skin so I still have those like bulge in my belly just because there’s excess skin there that’s not fat so.
James: I thought it’s pretty brave of you to show that on your webpage. You’re so cool.
Rayzel: Well I wanted to be real cause I for so long, and I’m a woman, so it’s different but you know I was raised looking at fitness magazines so I thought that’s what a healthy normal person looked like. They have no excess flab anywhere, anything imperfect, so it’s kind of like no matter how thin I got because I actually was fairly thin in high school. No matter how thin I got I felt like I didn’t look good and that I was overweight and I wasn’t. Now with CrossFit it’s completely changed my whole outlook on women and what’s strong and healthy looks like and because they all look about like me I feel like hey I look great! I think it’s like exuding that like these are the normal things that a woman looks like and be proud of that.
James: You know what you go back to those renaissance painting and you see those women on those paintings and they got bellies, they got, they you know whatever but men are still abs perfect, you know. Oh please.
Rayzel: Yeah that’s interesting. Well maybe I can ask you now when you first discover the HCG because like you said a lot of men have concerns about the diet. Did you have any concerns yourself before you started it that you were worried about after reading what the rules were?
James: I did not. I’m not a big research guy I kind of go on like that sometime. So after reading the book The Weight Loss Cure, all that stuff but reading Simeons protocol I just realize thousands of people have done this. Basically no bad effects, you know.
Rayzel: So do you feel like that really help you then though reading those books versus if you have not read those books and someone just told you “Oh there’s this diet hCG you eat 500 calories”, would you have been more sceptical then if you hadn’t have the details?
I can’t imagine that I would have done it and I can’t imagine why anybody would. If they don’t read the manuscript and got some misunderstanding of what’s behind this? To me understanding this is everything. It’ll motivate you when you’re down, when you don’t want to do this. One thing that gets me through is I’m a late night eater. I mean I go all day long and not eat but when I want to eat at night you know, so trying to quit eating around 6 is whatever. So my wife will- she had leftover coffee in the crockpot or whatever. She will put little cream in it and really get away from that but she put stevia in it and she’ll make coffee ice cubes for me. So when I want to eat something at night, I want something sweet. You let those coffee ice cubes melt just a hair and they’re e not hard to crunch and you can suck them, you can beat them. You feel like you’re chewing eating something, you feel like you got those great tripe treat and coffee cubes have gotten me through more hardships than you can imagine.
Rayzel: That’s a great tip. I’m gonna put that on the blog post that goes with the interview. That’s a great idea. Very cool. That’s awesome.
James: I got a great thing I just did this last week of Phase 3 thing. Anyway instead of potato salad uses the cauliflower. So then the same stuff and it’s like man this tastes basically like potato salad just you know.
Rayzel: That’s fantastic, that’s great. So just going back real quick to the advice about researching the diet, you know for, if you’ve just heard about it and then you feel like sceptical. I think that’s a normal reaction that’s fine. It’s fine to be sceptical. Just you know it might be worth researching further before you make your final decision because it’s true like you said when you actually research the premise behind it and even for instance a lot of people were like that’s a female hormone. That’s the pregnancy hormone. It is true that women produce it a lot when they’re pregnant but actually men do produce very tiny amounts of the hormone in their body. I did research that so it’s not like it’s never in a man’s body, it is, it’s just small amount and that really is what you’re taking on the diet is very small amounts so it’s not really as crazy as it sounds on the outside.
James: Again, if your me, this protocol you’ll see how I get in to all this and actually found this beneficial for boys and issues. And it helps right now with their issues. You talk about investigating stuff, unfortunately people go to the internet and they go, hCG this is the worst thing in the world, that’s where they’re gonna stop. They’re gonna listen to people that haven’t done it. I’ve never heard anybody or seen any interview of somebody that honestly done HCG that had bad effects. No one got up there and said “Hey you know what I lost a kidney”. I just haven’t seen it.
Rayzel: Yeah, well it’s funny too because there’s actually a lot of flak for like just low calorie diets in general and fasting. But the more research I did on that. I still believe in the use of HCG, I feel like it just makes the whole thing work so beautifully. But honestly even when I started researching fasting more it’s not, people have made a lot of hoopla about that being unhealthy too but when you’re very heavy, your body does burn fat even on just a regular low calorie diet so it is yeah, you can’t always believe what the mainstream media or blog say.
James: I keep [inaudible] your webpage but honestly chica that’s and I think these interviews are good cause people are seeing more people other than yourself. But people can see if you want to really do something or you’re really walking through something, you know and you’ve been doing this 2-3 years or whatever and it doesn’t seem to be adversely affecting you. I mean you know I never stop to check all those [inaudible]
Rayzel: No, no, that’s good. That’s good.
James: I just you know when I was a kid, high school, we did stupid stuff. I did drugs and [inaudible] like Oh you did that you didn’t die okay. But with this again thousands of people doing something that they’re not having the bad effects. I mean I’ve done a lot of fasting before and I’ve done it you know to try to [inaudible] and things like that. I’ve done 30 and 40 day water fast.
Rayzel: Wow. You have. Interesting.
James: Again you can drop 40-50 pounds doing that but when you start eating again and in a week you got it right back and worst.
Rayzel: Right. We should talk about that, yeah tell me about that cause you said before- I didn’t mean to interrupt you but just before you said you’ve lost weight hCG before but then you had a rough patch in life so tell me the comparison with how the weight came back on after hCG versus after fasting like you said.
James: With fasting it just came right back but with hCG, you know, I lost a business, [inaudible] my wife, no money and you know just being stupid but it took months and months, I mean it took a couple of years to get that 100 pounds back on me. That was just being foolish for the whole time. I mean I hardly tried and then when you just even try to do something then you don’t really go anywhere. You just kind of held up and then boom you’re climb some more. The very first time I did HCG because of the fasting and not wanting to lose muscle because I don’t want to lose whatever would be helping me. I’ve done Atkins before and well I was doing nothing but 95% fats. I was eating macadamia nuts trying to lose weight in Atkins you know. I still love macadamia nuts I can’t stand a little. That’s news for you if you really love something just gorge on it a little while
Rayzel: Then you get sick of it. I don’t know that never happened with me and ice cream. I still have to avoid it.
James: Well there are great stuffs there [inaudible]. The first time I did HCG I went for the hydrostatic testing, you know the water tank. I went in to the water tank and tested before and after to make sure I was not losing muscle.
Rayzel: I’m so glad you did that.
James: Again, that helped me see that for myself it’s working. I was in a situation where they can hook me up with electrodes and try to differentiate body fat and muscle. Like I said how much water your body is actually utilizing and all the fancy words with. I did all of that. Not only could I see it but they could all see it. People at the doctor’s office and everybody can see it happening.
Rayzel: Do you remember the details of the test results, by chance, before and after? I know it’s been a while.
James: No.
Rayzel: Could I get them later somehow?
James: I’ll do my best to try to dig those up.
Rayzel: If you find it because I that’s actually the kind of thing that I wish more people had access to because you’re right that’s pretty much the ultimate proof.
James: Well I haven’t thought about any of that in such a long time. I barely, I’ve got some before pictures, my wife man, she posts those on Facebook when I first open up a Facebook page and it was one of the ugliest me sitting down fat. Why would you put this on my page? I don’t know how to get it off. You know, stuff like that. [Inaudible]. But she’s actually; bless her heart she’s been faithful to put up with someone who’s heavy and coming from a background where she doesn’t like heavy. She even got up to, well I’ll get in trouble, best stop talking, and her story is her story. She’s mighty grateful to be back down.
Rayzel: Let me see here. Let me see where I’m at. Oh so maybe what I can do is if you do find the test result type stuff, I’ll put it in the blog post or something. I would just love to see that. I wish more people could do that testing.
James: Well, I guess, when I started this round honestly I just so mad at myself that I’ve gotten heavy again and let this happen. I took some before pictures but I was just so mad. I took one without clothes on and you can’t see anything personal unfortunately, all you can see is fat. It’s ugly picture. So you might not get that one until I get to be abs and cut.
Rayzel: But I’m sure you’ll get there. It seems you’re in a different place mentally after going through what you did. Would you say what’s change about your outlook that’s making it feel like this is the time that you’re gonna keep it off this time.
James: I am doing a lot of things in my life to persuade my heart of different things. That’s a whole long story that this forum doesn’t allow but it has a lot to do with how you see yourself, what you see, the pictures you allow to stay in your [inaudible], the self-talk you allow to keep self-talking. I’m just learning to put those [inaudible] send it a way and change that. So that’s got a lot to do with it and I think the other is I did lose the weight and I gained it back and it’s like well I will never would come here again. I gave away all my big clothes. Because of it I have one pair of pants to wear through the winter. I’m just like not buy any, I’d go to Goodwill or something, get a couple of pair but I’m just not go over again. But now thankfully I am [inaudible] back in the closet. You know there’s a time before I’m not gone with my shirts tucked in for 30 years or 40 years and I ended up in a restaurant situation and I didn’t have anything to wear and my wife bought me a shirt to wear so I went to the [inaudible] and I had to tuck it in and it’s just like. Oh it was weird, it hugged you but it’s like I’m super embarrassed. This is a milestone. That’s what’s different. I’m learning to grab a milestones when something feels a little different it feels good. Right. Something I can do is like Wow I can pick my foot up and wash it. I can put my leg on my knee to tie my shoe. I can tell you a bunch of things that are just too much information. Fat people. Fat, fat people. You know Dr. Simeons he calls a 300-pounder a colossus. I’m like “Oh my God, they’re not totally obese, they’re a colossus. My God!” You got the colossus thing with you.
Rayzel: That is the weird thing about how things seem to have changed since when he was around and doing it. Somehow it seems like the food, the types of ingredients in our food are different meaning making us heavier than ever before. That’s interesting.
James: You know how you do in your blog about [inaudible] but I was just reading a very, very respected public figure and doctor and I don’t know, I didn’t check this stuff myself but he was saying that China and India are now the 1 and 2 leading nations in the world for diabetes. European countries are it’s almost 40% of the population has diabetes. And the number, I forgot how many billions, it’s like 2. Something billion people are overweight in the world. You’re asking me what’s different and I think I’m just kind of waking up to realize it is totally my responsibility. I can blame my mama, I can blame a lot of thing but I have a choice today. God gave us the power to choose life and death and [inaudible]. I choose life today.
Rayzel: And you can break that mould you know. I believe that because my family history in my mom’s maternal side, my grandfather, they all pretty much died of complications of diabetes and they were all larger people and they all have very big appetite which I do. Like I said, my husband’s 6 feet tall, I’m 5’1’’. Even to this day I probably eat much as he does but I think since I CrossFit it’s okay, it works out but you know I eat really healthy but I can eat a lot of food. There’s some genetic component there where we’re very attracted to sugar and a lots of it and of course that turns into diabetes and you know being heavy and then dying of complications of that. That’s a big thing in our whole family line and I feel like I’m kind of breaking that cycle because I realize like “Okay, I’m inordinately attracted to sugary foods.” My husband’s not. He can eat a piece of pie and be done with it and move on and he won’t be thinking about it after that but I’ll be kind of wishing I could have eaten the whole pie if I do that. That’s always how it’s been for me. So I realized I have to make some really drastic changes in my life to break away from that end result and I feel like I have. You can do that but you have to be able to recognize it and then make a drastic change.
James: Well, I’ve got some really- I thought we could take this in a different direction. Something that I recognized when I did the hCG the first time before I did it, I parked and I was late for a movie one night with my wife and so I ran or try to run to get into the theatre and well my knee started to hurt and my knees hurt for 6 or 8 months and you know I was in bible school I was trying to [inaudible] taking pain meds and stuff and yada yada ya. Well when I ran into the protocol part of this does is moving get rid of fat but actually rebuilds fat in your heels, in your knees, in different places where you’ve lost it and that was my experience. Honest to God I had to negotiate a full ridge curve like you wouldn’t believe. These knees, it couldn’t sleep, there’s no position that it can be comfortable in and 2 days before I finished that first protocol. I actually woke up with no pain that day. Dissipated little by little but I woke up with no pain in my knees and I went on to- it took me a month to get my regular gait back. I didn’t realize I was walking weird because of the pain. The whole month to walk regular again and then I made this mistake that some people might make and I thought I would mention and that is “Oh wow, I lost 65 pounds that was the easiest”. You know HCG is the easiest thing I have ever done and I personally can’t imagine doing something that’s easier. Is it easy to do? No. Okay. Well, let me say it this way, it is not without effort. You have to make an effort but the reward of the effort in HCG to me is more powerful than anything. I still have to watch myself because you know what he talks about the abnormal fat “This is the only way to unlock the abnormal fat like HCG is the only answer.” There are other answers. But my knees kept hurting me and I’m sorry- the point is I found it so easy to lose the weight that when I got off hCG it’s like within 3 days there were my birthday and family took me for an all you can eat King Crab leg. Woo yeah! And for a few weeks after that it’s like well I can lose this weight again. I didn’t get to do this for 6 weeks. What’s the difference? I got a whole different mindset now. It’s like, let’s not go back to this or let’s get our body to a place where [inaudible] crab legs, I won’t get some crab legs. But I found it so easy to lose the weight that I did not value what I have done and I went back to being foolish and eating and doing all the things that’s gonna screw your hypothalamus and take you back to where you were with the mindset of “Oh I can just do hCG again”. That is a trap.
Rayzel: It is. It is true I think that it’s something that a lot of us have fallen victim to. I kind of ended up in that spot for a little bit initially too because when I actually- to be honest when I first started the diet I didn’t really have any intention of changing my eating habits long term. I really didn’t. I was so kind of addicted to the way I ate. I just didn’t see how and I’m probably repeating myself from another interview where I talked about this but yeah I just didn’t see how I really could make that change because I was just so addicted to all the foods that I ate. It was kind of like with the short range thing in view. I’m sure I could do a diet for a few weeks and then whatever happens after that, I’ll figure it out then but thankfully once you start to see the changes that can take place and how you can change. You start thinking more and kind of gradually implement any changes.
James: I think what you’ve done with the exercise is totally beneficial for you. I actually have walked in that and I like it. I missed it. Before when I got riding my bicycle I got to where I liked riding it and I hate exercises badly as I did. It’s really something. I have [inaudible] certainly I remember when I look at how skinny I was when I was 18 it’s crazy, crazy, crazy. But I don’t know what’s there that I don’t know now. I do know that you don’t get to go camping with your kids because you don’t want to walk around. You just don’t wanna do stuff when you’re so heavy and you just missed out on moments in life so I don’t want to miss out on too much more of the moments of my life.
Rayzel: Those are nice thoughts you know.
James: You know that’s one reason to do it but you got to do it for yourself. You can’t do it for your wife; you can’t do it for yourself. Certainly you can use those as motivators but when you get miserably heavy. You’re not really too worried about anybody else if you’re me.
Rayzel: Those are good thoughts. I agree. It’s like wanting to be there for your family. I think those are add-ons but like you said ultimately I think it has to be motivated like you said by the desire to do it for yourself too. That reminds me, this is kind of a different subject but, my husband he’s kind of a musician, like he can play just about any instrument. When we were younger I would sing and he would sing and he’d play instruments but I’m not really- it’s just not really my thing but I tried to learn guitar for him like 4 or 5 times now. He doesn’t mind like he’d never press but I’d be like “Oh I wanna do this for him” but I don’t really wanna, I just don’t care that much. So I’ve tried like 4 times and it just never work. I give up. It just never works because it’s not in my own heart. It only carries you so far if it’s not there inside you.
James: It really does. This last round I did. I didn’t do it, I don’t know if I mentioned that or not-
Rayzel: No actually I want to talk more about that in a minute too like the logistics. No that’s good why don’t we go ahead and go there now. I wanted to talk about like the actual logistics of while you were on this round. How many calories you ate? What your dosage was? How, you said you have a labor intensive job so why don’t you talk about that now.
James: Well I did lose a 20-year business about 3 years ago and so this last 3 years I’ve been in sales but it’s appliances [inaudible] and for the last 6 months I’ve been working to launch another business so I’’ve been just helping with the deliveries. So this last round I was physically working very hard. You know all the refrigerators and washers and dryers and things. I live in the Atlanta Georgia area. It’s pretty hot in summer and literally I would sweat through shirts and clothes like crazy. Even though I was doing all that I still pretty much stuck with the 500 calories. I mean if I thought I was a little hungrier or I thought I want an extra big piece of chicken I didn’t care [inaudible]. It made sense to me, you know, whatever. My wife was very helpful there, almost too helpful because she’s always like this is a serving and I’m like put that half a cup thing away and give me a bowl. So I would go along with the servings and I would try to drink water. I try to get the concept of drinking water. I don’t even drink with my meals anymore. I got it in my head somewhere that you digest food better enzymes and stuff isn’t so diluted. That’s just in me now. So I try to, I think about it I try to drink water 30 minutes or well before I ate. Or if I was hungry at night, I’m a night time eater, I told you that. I would like, go drink a big glass of water first and just see how you do in 5 to 10 minutes. If you think you just got to have that piece of fish, I try to eat protein if I was gonna cheat. My energy was really great and even the times I thought I was worn out it’s like you know you just move all kind of machines you’ll be tired anyway. In times I’ve done it before I get towards the end of it and I would get kind of light headed or I couldn’t stand up too quick cause you think you’d pass out. I didn’t go through that this time and that might be because I didn’t eat the fruit. I chose not to eat the fruit and I didn’t miss it. Once in a while I might have an orange slice or something but I just didn’t miss it.
Rayzel: So overall then for the makeup of the 500 calories you have the protein and the vegetables and then did you replace the calories from the fruit with something else?
James: I might give myself a little more; eat more bites of the vegetable or whatever. You said something in one of your videos just give us some explanation to why you thought Simeons did 500 calories and he didn’t want you to be so regimented because you know this much fish and this much steak is gonna be different calories. It made a lot of sense to me. I just decided I won’t gonna worry about it too much plus this idea of just eating to hunger and not overeating or stop when you’re just kind of not hungry anymore. That’s a new one for me you know. I know that’s a good thing but the thought of doing it is trouble. It’s funny if you just stop and think about it. I tell myself every year Red Lobster does this thing with the all you can eat [inaudible] I mean we’ve been there before and we pride ourselves on boring 12, 15, and 18 servings of this stuff and last week it was like Oh it’s trip festival again I’m gonna drive down there before I go back home and I thought about that and then I’m learning to listen inside you. I’m learning to not think about my head or my habits so much but it’s like what do I really want? And I thought about going to Red Lobster doing that and it’s like I don’t really want to do that. So I’m wanting what I don’t want to do it just because it’s a habit and I’ve done it the last 10 years you know I have to go do it and boy I tell you what being able to get away from stuff like that or give yourself that little facts like you wake up the next day and you go man, I nearly trash myself eating last night. [Inaudible] and you feel so good the next day. Perk me up when that scale reward you. Well that daily reward and I still do the daily weight because that is a reward.
Rayzel: I think like you said part of that stems from really valuing the progress that you’re making now like you value what you’ve accomplished because even for me, even to this day, every now and then when I go to a grocery store I might see a package of gluten-free cookies and I use to buy those and eat the whole package and still on occasion there is a fleeting thought through my head of like it would be fun to buy those and eat them all but immediately following that quick thought is like I value all that I’ve achieved far too much to do that. It’s just not worth it and then I move on. But it’s not like I never, I still occasionally have a little thought like that.
James: You know there’s some mind battles when you’re doing this low calorie diet. I was [inaudible] one day I [inaudible] and they smell so good I couldn’t believe it. A mustard sandwich just seems like the end of the world so you still have some mind battles. I have noticed on each little deal you get on this kick and you kind of do that the whole time. This last time I got into mustard. I have mustard on my fish, I have mustard on my chicken and I love mustard and I love mustard with them. You would ask me about just doing thing. I loaded clean.
Rayzel: You loaded clean and overall you already explained that but just to clarify it because people are so worried about it. You are a tall larger man that works hard and you ate 500 calories a day and you didn’t feel really weak and hungry so you had good energy, you weren’t hungry overall.
James: That’s the truth. Again I think it has a lot to do with your mind and your expectation. I don’t know how people do it but in mind I was like okay if a 100 pound woman and a 300 pound man both do 500 calories then what’s left unlocks what they need. In my mind I’m like okay if I’m working my tail off, slept like a dog and drinking water like crazy then my body is unlocking even more of the fat store beginning what I needed.
Rayzel: Actually that makes sense because I don’t know if you’ve ever read Robin Woodall’s book it’s called Weightloss Apocalypse, but anyway she talks about it seems counter intuitive but once you think about it oftentimes it’s actually thinner people that have a harder time on the low calorie diet because they just don’t have as many fat stores and hCG can’t stimulate as much leptin as when you’re a larger person you do have a lot more that your body can utilize so it is true you actually can do it almost more easily, the low calorie.
James: I think [inaudible] he’d just get so frustrated because I’ll get up and I’ll be dropping a pound or two every day. I have my days where I go 2-3 days and nothing would happen or I would eat salt and it’ll step up. But I mean to go through, to be at the end of the 40-50 days and still be knocking down 2-3 pounds a day sometimes. Oh it’s the best feeling in the world. It just makes her so mad. But then I think generally men do lose it easier.
Rayzel: They do. They have more muscle mass to start with to and testosterone and all that. But anyway speaking of pattern of weight loss. So you said you would have a large loss some days but then other days you would not lose anything for 2-3 days, is that how it would be?
James: Yeah I got a few of those.
Rayzel: Because it’s good to know what’s normal, like you said, what to expect. Some people kind of freak out if they don’t lose weight for a day or 2. Like Oh my gosh, it’s not working but usually the pattern is not super consistent. Sometimes it’s big and then nothing and then big and that’s okay.
James: I think when you know you’re eating right then you don’t have to feel guilty. When you do something foolish then that sets in on you and then that scale gone up and you’re oh that’s what happen or maybe that didn’t happen maybe I just ate a little extra salt or something else irritated my body where it wanted to save itself but you know I do[inaudible] makeup thank God. I find a reason to thank God every week.
Rayzel: That’s the one for this week.
James: Yes. You know I would just really get in the way back too if I knew that I was doing pretty much what I needed to do. I would just keep [inaudible] whatever you do have like this 3 pound drop you’re like okay we’re probably not going anywhere tomorrow so that happens and you just have to rationalize it and again to take a look at your webpage. You have so many videos that help you understand when things aren’t quite going alright or you have so much information in there. It’s just incredible.
Rayzel: Thank you. Thanks. And I think what you said is what you have to keep in mind is you don’t want to overanalyse things like you said because you could just drive yourself crazy cause most of the time you are doing everything right and you just kind of need to wait it out so I think that that’s good advice.
James: I think I only had 1 time this last time where I went 3 days and the 4th day I didn’t go anywhere or I’d gone up a pound or 2 and not go anywhere. So that’s when I would normally do an apple day but when I’ve decided you know why would I do an apple day, you know, it’s totally sugar and I don’t want to do that so I would just fast that day and the thing about hCG is I’m generally not hungry. You can ever separate the mind battle from real, real hunger. You realize you’re not hungry so the people that talked about the dangers of low calorie stuff. You know if you learn to listen to your body and that’s what I’m getting from you a lot to just kind of listen. It’s like what would I want to eat? Why am I craving maybe there’s something there I need? I’ve had enough to eat I don’t need it anymore. I need a rest or whatever. It’s a new experience for me chica. Cause I you know, I think it is for a lot of people.
Rayzel: It is. Yeah. The dose that you were on, how many iu?
James: Is it Rayzel or chica?
Rayzel: Rayzel. That’s fine.
James: We refer to you as chica right?
Rayzel: Either way is fine. So what dose of HCG were you taking on that round?
James: 200.
Rayzel: 200iu. Okay cool.
James: It is easy to pull up into shot and I figure that will work for me now. I thought about towards the end of it and I wonder should I reduce this a little bit and I just never did. I stuck with that.
Rayzel: It sounds like you felt comfortable on it.
James: I wasn’t hungry I was trying to listen to my body and I watch your videos about how to judge your [inaudible] so I was like am I hungry? No. Do I have a problem am I weak? Whatever. I didn’t sense that.
Rayzel: That’s great. I have noticed for people watching that men in general seem to need a slightly higher dosage than women. I have just noticed that most men feel good on 175-200. My dad actually did a round sometime back. He was on 175. I think he actually started in 150. He was pretty hungry, he was struggling, he was getting really grouchy and then he went up to 175 and he’s like I don’t know, it’ s okay. Then he finally went up to 200 and he seems to feel a lot better. He wasn’t feeling so hungry. The grouchiness went away so it does seem that men do good on a dose around there.
James: That happened to me in my other round years ago where I just feel like I was doing nothing and I was doing a regimented thing with somebody and they wouldn’t give me [inaudible]. So I had to figure out.
Rayzel: It is nice to have a little bit of control over the way you carry out the protocol so that you can judge for yourself what you need.
James: I tell you it’s nice to be able to get something in the local pharmacy. I’m not a research person. You seem like you are and I really trust your sincerity. I trust the research you’ve done. I think you go a long way in trying to build something to really help people. And because of that I trusted your references, your referrals. It is nice to be able to [inaudible] I don’t have to mess around and spend an 800 or a thousand dollars. I was in a situation one time where the doctor just let me order directly from a pharmacy. They send it to me at this cost. It’s like $18 a bottle and I had a year prescription for it. Whenever I run out I was like [inaudible].
Rayzel: That’s the thing about doing this diet. I mean no matter where you get hCG whether you go to a clinic or you get it online, I feel like there are, that’s why I put so much information in my website is because I feel like there’s a lot of things that the people dispensing the protocol don’t know because they’ve never have done it and people struggle because they don’t have those details that they need to do the protocol properly so that’s why I’m always telling you to read my blog post on this site to help find a good dose for you and to learn how to get rid of cravings and all that cause those are all the things that make it work for real is paying attention to all that.
James: You know chica, I’ll say this to you, people who has come to an end of this, I always get nervous when I’m coming to the end of it because when I’m on it, the food is so limited but it’s so easy for me because it’s like A-B-C and so now I got all this choices again and you’re losing and you’re just like you want to keep losing. I find the people that in groups that I’ve done ball with whatever they’re just trying to squeeze every little thing they can or whatever and I think what they did is they end up fixated on the food. I try with being fixated on the food and then when I’m eating I’m trying not to, you know, I’m sitting in front of the TV or do something where I’m scarfing it down but you know try to chew that food up until it’s liquid in my mouth and enjoy the flavors and stuff and when you really come off it though you really enjoy other stuff. There’s thing who go through the market [inaudible] she’s never made while I’m doing the diet [inaudible] but we’ll go through the market and I’ll see things like lychee nuts or just things that I’d like to have and so I put it on a list. That’s the other thing I just run into something and it’s like Oh I got to have that. It’s like you can have it in 4 weeks, you’ll have it the rest of your life. So we make such a big deal and I have and I still do, sometimes you make such a big deal about food. Some of our biggest fights have been when I was doing HCG before and it wouldn’t taste good or she would burn something or just something I was like, so disappointed.
Rayzel: I know, like that’s all was gonna get to have and it wasn’t satisfying. That’s so funny. That’s why when in regular life I tend to order the same food at a restaurant like when I find a dish I like I always order the same thing because I’m so afraid that if I order something else it’s not gonna be as satisfying.
James: Fortunately for me my wife is extremely, extremely, good cook. The downside of that is it makes going out to restaurants and stuff because you get disappointed. That is you know I don’t have to go to a restaurant. So we’re learning some of that. We invite a couple over, invite somebody over. Make a deal, make eating a deal and enjoy it.
Rayzel: Why don’t we wrap this up with just talking a little bit about P3 now because you mentioned that you’ve actually lost a little weight in P3. Why don’t you tell me how you’re eating? What types of food you’re eating now in P3 while you’re staying stable.
James: Well I definitely decided to stay away from the starches and the sugars and I pretty much stayed with what I was doing before and just added a couple of things in for those first 2-3 weeks. I had to had one or two nights or whatever where I was like I wanna have something cool here. I saw my [inaudible] so I would do that but I’m pretty much been eating what I want to and I still have a thing about wanting to eat at night so I’ll just try to eat protein, make some cheese chips or just something that’s not carbs or my ice cubes, we made other kind of cubes. I don’t particularly care for, I’m trying to get away from Splendas and sweeteners and couple of that mess. I don’t think we’ve got sugar in the house. We’ve been using Splenda now for a long time and but she found some coffee flavors that did have Splenda and stuff that I’m like for occasional treat it still be [inaudible] what I’m doing before and where you don’t feel like you’re totally deprived or anything and you’re still enjoying life and that’s last P3 I’ve had some corn chips the last few days and I’ve had some stuff and I had a few nights where it’s like I think I’m going to brace here a little while because you know we’re still trying to get business going. We’re still dealing with real life and I’m not body beautiful yet so. So I have few night where I would just graze for whatever but I get up the next morning I’m thinking I’ve had a couple of days where I won’t even weigh. It’s like the scale’s gonna kill me I don’t even want to see it. I’ve decided I’ll go in here anyway and I will be shock to find out I didn’t gain any weight so that has been a tremendous experience for me. Now I’ll eat some salt or something, I will so I’ll chill back off of this for a day or so and I’m staying right there. My ending weight is 349. I really wanted to be under that 350 park you know. But at the end of the day I had always weigh less in the morning than in the end of the day. The other day [inaudible] I would step on the scale I was 342 and I’m like [inaudible]
Rayzel: Yeah, yeah, cool.
James: So like I said I’m staying 344-345 right now and not really trying to lose weight right now. It’s just like I’ll put my efforts, efforts back when I go back on track.
Rayzel: Obviously you’re making good choices because you’ve lost 5 pounds or so in P3 even so.
James: I mean I can see mine again, way too much information for people but we’re colossus. Only when you can see your ankles, when you could push on your skin and it doesn’t leave the imprint of your finger anymore, I mean these things are cool. I’ve had some issue, I had the side of my leg was just stinging and going numb and I started a couple of nights I woke up and it’s just what I think shingles would feel like. My leg is on fire I couldn’t touch it whatever. But since this last round that’s pretty much all gone away and you know I don’t know what I look like right now. I’ve made a mistake of going to a dermatologist the day before this and so I’m going to be looking [inaudible] couple of days. They thought oh it looks to be precancerous let’s just freeze it for the heck of it. When I did that and I have absolutely no idea why [inaudible] sorry.
Rayzel: The cool thing about this is I can edit anything out so that’s what’s cool about pre-recording it’s not like it’s live.
James: I don’t think people will watch a 2 hour video anyway.
Rayzel: Why don’t I just ask you one last question and that’s just-
James: You know I’m gonna think of a million things as soon as we sign out after this.
Rayzel: Later like God I thought about this.
James: I will tell you this though. This is pretty cool. I found this yellow rain jacket years ago and it’s like a 2X. I was up in the 7Xs. The short I have on now is the 4X and loose. I had this 2X jacket and when I did get down like the 300 I decided just I said because one day I’m gonna be able to wear this. Inside I’m [inaudible] it’s still a little snug but it’s like Oh my God I can wear it.
Rayzel: That is so cool.
James: It’s very cool. It’s still in the closet but I’m still looking-
Rayzel: It is actually really- it’s just a weird feeling a little bit when you have experiences like that wherein like for instance when I first started the diet I have bought a couple of items of clothing that didn’t fit yet but that I was looking forward to fitting into. But then as time went on eventually those clothes were huge on me. The clothes that I couldn’t get into were now way too big. It was just a weird feeling. It’s like I couldn’t even put that on before and now I can’t even wear it because it’s too big.
James: Well now I’m coming into thinking of looking into my wardrobe again and coming back into which is very cool. I think it should be obvious and but we haven’t even talked about it and that is the self-esteem that comes. Now people are like “Oh James you look so good you must be proud”. And there’s this little voice in me going I’m not proud, I should have never got this big. So I didn’t really let myself do the little whatever but I’m learning, and you know what you got to let yourself do the little whatever so what you screwed up you’re working on it again. Let yourself enjoy the accolade. Let yourself- you know you don’t have to in a lot of stuff just say “Hey thanks.”
Rayzel: Yeah. It’s good because you have value to offer from it. I’m actually writing this blog post about why I’m glad I was overweight at one time. It’s taught me so much. It’s not that I’m proud that I got that way but everything that I’ve done since that time- I mean this my whole website wouldn’t be around if that hadn’t happen. If I hadn’t had something bad happen and then turn that around and use HCG and I learned so much through the whole thing then yeah the website wouldn’t even exist. It’s true all the experience you have whether good or bad you can use to inspire other people.
James: I have this correlation with the weight loss but it also correlates into this story where I must be one day and somebody said something about winning the lottery. I’m like I don’t want to win the lottery. My wife almost got mad said “Aren’t you tired of where we’ve been? Why would you not win the lottery?” I don’t like being here. I know God didn’t put us here. It’s not his desire. He has better things for us and I don’t want to stay here but while I’m here I wanna learn what I can so that I never have to come here again. I know what it’s like to be just big and I don’t think since I was 20 years old. I want to be near that 240-250 range so it’s like why do you want to get [inaudible] and I’m like I’m shooting for a strong healthy 250 and let’s see what that feels like. I know the chart says I’m supposed to be 185 and I was like I just can’t see it right now. Let me just get down to 250 and then let’s see where we’re at and where we will go. But I would like to get there. I will get there. I have more confidence in it now and in the confidence you know I got a business that were cranking up but I’ve got some things I want to do and man I need. I need the self-confidence. My wife’s like “People just generally don’t like, there’s [inaudible]” and I’m like yeah she’s there’s a lot of truth to this much as we don’t like it. There’ a lot of truth to it. I still need to get myself worth other than what I look like and that’s just part of it.
Rayzel: Yeah. Yeah that goes together though. Well I’m so glad that we got to talk now because I do figured when you get to your goal and it’ll be so fun to do a follow up interview when you get further along and see how you’re doing and just everything that’s transpired since now.
James: I’ll give you a shout when I get through the next round and I’m sitting at 290 instead of 345.
Rayzel: Yeah, sounds really good. Thank you so much for being on here today.
James: You’re quite welcome and I really I feel like I’m talking to a star right now but at the same time chica it’s weird because you come on this video and you’re talking about your family and you get pictures of your kids and that kind of stuff so sometimes we feel like we all know you and you’re our biggest buddy and you’re my grandma we’ll be able to pick up the phone and call you. Well and you know basically you don’t know me but it’s okay cause what you’re doing, it’s really imparting yourself to folks and I personally really appreciate it. I hear people slamming you here and there whatever and I’m like you know, people will slam people that are doing something. Your motive seems like you really want to help people not to build something that helps you make a fortune.
Rayzel: Thank you and I do tell people that I do love to help people but it is true if I couldn’t make income from it as well I’d have to go get a job from somewhere else to support my family and I think people would recognize that like I couldn’t work 30 hours a week for free. No one can do that. So it goes together. But it is true, I love doing this and it’s- I don’t have to do all this, I don’t have to do these interviews or make all these- like you said I research hours and hours for every article I write because I feel like this has changed my life. I feel like if I hadn’t found this I don’t know where I’d be. I don’t know what would be happening. I feel like I’d really be missing out on my life and my family.
James: You know for the people that have the arguments that very low calorie is dangerous or this is dangerous or that is dangerous. Being obese is dangerous.
Rayzel: Exactly.
James: My blood pressure is down now. I didn’t have to take meds before but I probably should have and just you know stuff that other people are still going through that I don’t go through.
Rayzel: Yeah Episode I think its 18, I haven’t published it yet but it will be published by the time this one is published but she’s the woman who her body fat percent is currently 23%. She’s lost 120 pounds in a year and she was at the point where she said before she found hCG she was very heavy and she said the next time she needed to call 911 cause it had happened before she had this surgery and all this crazy stuff, she’s like, she had decided the next time that happen she just wasn’t gonna call. That’s where she was at. She’s like kind of like giving up like I’m that’s it, I’m kind of done, I don’t know the solution. Then she ended up finding HCG because she’s like I’m gonna try one more time. She discovered HCG and now she’s lost over 100 pounds. She’s planning all this surgeries to get rid of her excess skin. I mean she’s excited about life. She feels so much better. So it’s changed her life.
James: I wish her well with the surgery and stuff I’ve got to look at that too, you know when you’re that huge. I do believe the picture and stuff I’m seeing where HCG tightens up your skin and things like that. There’s a couple of natural things, a couple of frequency things, a couple of things I’m gonna try to work with and just see if we can’t go that route first. I’m glad for her. I’m looking forward to seeing that.
Rayzel: I think in another couple of weeks I’ll put that one out.
James: She [inaudible] and which is like I’m just afraid every time I’ve got to lose some weight but who’s afraid to do this but you know that now my son- I have a 33 year old son that has lost 60 pounds doing hCG, I don’t know if I told you that or not- he’s just got through with the round and he weighs less now than he did when he was 22, he’s never been a big person but he is excited but my mom will listen to him. He’s more thorough, I did it, Jim you do, you get all that stuff it’s more practical. She’s like “I’m thinking about it”. So I gave her your web page I said just go read the manuscript. Go read Pounds and Inches. I haven’t look at that yet and I said its okay mom but when you get a chance read a couple of pages. I said it’s really interesting reading to me.
Rayzel: It is. Well it’s just kind of like this weird, when I first started reading it I was like, “Whoa, this is just weird, I don’t know it’s like something I’ve never heard of before” and it’s very intriguing but like you said it made sense.
James: Well you know I’ve been accused of being a conspiracy theorist. But it makes a lot of sense to me that big, big, big [inaudible], big medical, big [inaudible] really has no incentive for anybody to really be healthy. But again it boils down to maintain our responsibility for myself and trying to listen to my part and doesn’t have the need to. You want to sit there and say I won’t forget there cause you went there once and you went away from it and you know I’m just gonna go there and I do look forward to doing this interview on another round around December
Rayzel: Yeah. That’s gonna be awesome.

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